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[VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

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[VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Arnaud Héritier
Hi all,

  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a new vote with a better
scope about what we are voting for.

  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at Eclipse.org under EPL
1.0 license.
  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL licenses thus as
defined in our policy [1] this change put them in Category B [2] and we need
to validate this change by a vote with a majority of the PMC in favor (but
the vote is open to everybody).
  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for now I see no reason to
accept one and not the other.
  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in august (If we have not
enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if we really need to
extend it).

  The vote :

  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies SISU and AETHER libraries
published under EPL 1.0 License and released under eclipse.org governance
  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)

Arnaud

[1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
[2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Kristian Rosenvold-4
+1 binding

Kristian

Den 18.08.2011 11:23, skrev Arnaud Héritier:

> Hi all,
>
>    Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a new vote with a better
> scope about what we are voting for.
>
>    Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at Eclipse.org under EPL
> 1.0 license.
>    Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL licenses thus as
> defined in our policy [1] this change put them in Category B [2] and we need
> to validate this change by a vote with a majority of the PMC in favor (but
> the vote is open to everybody).
>    I push only one vote for both dependencies as for now I see no reason to
> accept one and not the other.
>    This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in august (If we have not
> enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if we really need to
> extend it).
>
>    The vote :
>
>    [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies SISU and AETHER libraries
> published under EPL 1.0 License and released under eclipse.org governance
>    [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>    [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
>
> Arnaud
>
> [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
> [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
>


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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Anders Hammar
In reply to this post by Arnaud Héritier
+1 (non-binding)

/Anders

2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:

> Hi all,
>
>  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a new vote with a better
> scope about what we are voting for.
>
>  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at Eclipse.org under EPL
> 1.0 license.
>  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL licenses thus as
> defined in our policy [1] this change put them in Category B [2] and we need
> to validate this change by a vote with a majority of the PMC in favor (but
> the vote is open to everybody).
>  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for now I see no reason to
> accept one and not the other.
>  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in august (If we have not
> enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if we really need to
> extend it).
>
>  The vote :
>
>  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies SISU and AETHER libraries
> published under EPL 1.0 License and released under eclipse.org governance
>  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
>
> Arnaud
>
> [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
> [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
>

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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Mark Struberg
Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,

Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:

a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions are also possible to release separately under ALv2?

b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu? Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any direct guice depending code in aether?

c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for this stuff to be released at Eclipse.

d.) How long will it take to get the first aether release done at Eclipse?

If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be a big pro.

txs and LieGrue,
strub


--- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
> +1 (non-binding)
>
> /Anders
>
> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a
> new vote with a better
> > scope about what we are voting for.
> >
> >  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at
> Eclipse.org under EPL
> > 1.0 license.
> >  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL
> licenses thus as
> > defined in our policy [1] this change put them in
> Category B [2] and we need
> > to validate this change by a vote with a majority of
> the PMC in favor (but
> > the vote is open to everybody).
> >  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for
> now I see no reason to
> > accept one and not the other.
> >  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in
> august (If we have not
> > enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if
> we really need to
> > extend it).
> >
> >  The vote :
> >
> >  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies
> SISU and AETHER libraries
> > published under EPL 1.0 License and released under
> eclipse.org governance
> >  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
> >  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
> >
> > Arnaud
> >
> > [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
> > [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Benson Margulies
Mark, Can it possibly matter what the java package names are? There
are ton's of wierd historical package names floating around the
universe. There is no requirement for incubating Apache projects to
move package names just for the sake of moving them. I think that
'sonatype' in a package name is a herring of perfect redness.


On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Mark Struberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
>
> Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:
>
> a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions are also possible to release separately under ALv2?
>
> b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu? Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any direct guice depending code in aether?
>
> c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
>
> d.) How long will it take to get the first aether release done at Eclipse?
>
> If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be a big pro.
>
> txs and LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
>> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
>> +1 (non-binding)
>>
>> /Anders
>>
>> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a
>> new vote with a better
>> > scope about what we are voting for.
>> >
>> >  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at
>> Eclipse.org under EPL
>> > 1.0 license.
>> >  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL
>> licenses thus as
>> > defined in our policy [1] this change put them in
>> Category B [2] and we need
>> > to validate this change by a vote with a majority of
>> the PMC in favor (but
>> > the vote is open to everybody).
>> >  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for
>> now I see no reason to
>> > accept one and not the other.
>> >  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in
>> august (If we have not
>> > enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if
>> we really need to
>> > extend it).
>> >
>> >  The vote :
>> >
>> >  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies
>> SISU and AETHER libraries
>> > published under EPL 1.0 License and released under
>> eclipse.org governance
>> >  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>> >  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
>> >
>> > Arnaud
>> >
>> > [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
>> > [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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>

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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Daniel  Kulp
On Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:17:49 AM Benson Margulies wrote:
> Mark, Can it possibly matter what the java package names are? There
> are ton's of wierd historical package names floating around the
> universe. There is no requirement for incubating Apache projects to
> move package names just for the sake of moving them. I think that
> 'sonatype' in a package name is a herring of perfect redness.

Well, I guess the real question is will they change the package names or not?  
If yes, then it MAY be better to wait a few weeks to get the version with the
new package names.  

For example, when Jetty moved to eclipse, all the package names changed from
org.mortbay.jetty to org.eclipse.jetty and you and I spent quite a bit of time
updating CXF to use the new package names (amongst the other changes).   If
we're going to move forward with Aether/Sisu, I'd prefer to start off with the
more stable names and such so an update to Aether/Sisu is really just a drop
in update at that time.

Dan



>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Mark Struberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
> >
> > Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea what it means for
> > us. So please allow me a few questions:
> >
> > a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on aether over at
> > Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to contribute, but wants to
> > make sure that his contributions are also possible to release
> > separately under ALv2?
> >
> > b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu? Pure JSR-330 and/or
> > plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any direct guice depending code in
> > aether?
> >
> > c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will they get changed
> > to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us to know. If so, we can just
> > cancel the vote and wait for this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
> >
> > d.) How long will it take to get the first aether release done at
> > Eclipse?
> >
> > If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get involved with that
> > stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be a big pro.
> >
> > txs and LieGrue,
> > strub
> >
> > --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
> >> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven
> >> core with EPL licenses - take 2 To: "Maven Developers List"
> >> <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
> >> +1 (non-binding)
> >>
> >> /Anders
> >>
> >> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> >  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a
> >>
> >> new vote with a better
> >>
> >> > scope about what we are voting for.
> >> >
> >> >  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at
> >>
> >> Eclipse.org under EPL
> >>
> >> > 1.0 license.
> >> >  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL
> >>
> >> licenses thus as
> >>
> >> > defined in our policy [1] this change put them in
> >>
> >> Category B [2] and we need
> >>
> >> > to validate this change by a vote with a majority of
> >>
> >> the PMC in favor (but
> >>
> >> > the vote is open to everybody).
> >> >  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for
> >>
> >> now I see no reason to
> >>
> >> > accept one and not the other.
> >> >  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in
> >>
> >> august (If we have not
> >>
> >> > enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if
> >>
> >> we really need to
> >>
> >> > extend it).
> >> >
> >> >  The vote :
> >> >
> >> >  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies
> >>
> >> SISU and AETHER libraries
> >>
> >> > published under EPL 1.0 License and released under
> >>
> >> eclipse.org governance
> >>
> >> >  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
> >> >  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
> >> >
> >> > Arnaud
> >> >
> >> > [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
> >> > [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
Daniel Kulp
[hidden email]
http://dankulp.com/blog
Talend - http://www.talend.com

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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Mark Struberg
In reply to this post by Benson Margulies
Benson, I think you got this completely wrong.

I don't care about the eclipse policies. But IF eclipse says they like to change the package names, then WE have to change all our aether imports and retest all that stuff...

If it stays com.sonatype, then otoh we don't need to do much...

LieGrue,
strub

--- On Thu, 8/18/11, Benson Margulies <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Benson Margulies <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 1:17 PM
> Mark, Can it possibly matter what the
> java package names are? There
> are ton's of wierd historical package names floating around
> the
> universe. There is no requirement for incubating Apache
> projects to
> move package names just for the sake of moving them. I
> think that
> 'sonatype' in a package name is a herring of perfect
> redness.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Mark Struberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
> >
> > Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea
> what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:
> >
> > a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on
> aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to
> contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions
> are also possible to release separately under ALv2?
> >
> > b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu?
> Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any
> direct guice depending code in aether?
> >
> > c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will
> they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us
> to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for
> this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
> >
> > d.) How long will it take to get the first aether
> release done at Eclipse?
> >
> > If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get
> involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be
> a big pro.
> >
> > txs and LieGrue,
> > strub
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
> >> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as
> dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
> >> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
> >> +1 (non-binding)
> >>
> >> /Anders
> >>
> >> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> >  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I
> relaunch a
> >> new vote with a better
> >> > scope about what we are voting for.
> >> >
> >> >  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be
> released at
> >> Eclipse.org under EPL
> >> > 1.0 license.
> >> >  Before they were published under ASL or
> dual ASL/EPL
> >> licenses thus as
> >> > defined in our policy [1] this change put
> them in
> >> Category B [2] and we need
> >> > to validate this change by a vote with a
> majority of
> >> the PMC in favor (but
> >> > the vote is open to everybody).
> >> >  I push only one vote for both dependencies
> as for
> >> now I see no reason to
> >> > accept one and not the other.
> >> >  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are
> in
> >> august (If we have not
> >> > enough votes at the end of next wednesday
> will see if
> >> we really need to
> >> > extend it).
> >> >
> >> >  The vote :
> >> >
> >> >  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core
> dependencies
> >> SISU and AETHER libraries
> >> > published under EPL 1.0 License and released
> under
> >> eclipse.org governance
> >> >  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
> >> >  [-1] I'm against because .... (please
> elaborate)
> >> >
> >> > Arnaud
> >> >
> >> > [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
> >> > [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Jason van Zyl
In reply to this post by Mark Struberg

On Aug 18, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:

> Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
>
> Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:
>
> a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions are also possible to release separately under ALv2?
>

The copyright of the code entering Eclipse always remains that of the author. The code that is submitted to Eclipse must be under the EPL license, but as the copyright owner you can make your contributions available under any license you choose.

> b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu? Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any direct guice depending code in aether?
>

Aether requires no DI.

> c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
>

I'm going to ask for an exception. I don't want to change the package names if I don't have to. It's just a pain in the ass.

> d.) How long will it take to get the first aether release done at Eclipse?
>

The creation review ends next Wednesday, it will take another week to provision the project. At that point if we don't have to change the package names we can do a release. If we have to change the package names then that will likely add at least another two weeks for proper testing.

> If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be a big pro.
>

Sorry, I don't grok that sentence.

> txs and LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
>> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
>> +1 (non-binding)
>>
>> /Anders
>>
>> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a
>> new vote with a better
>>> scope about what we are voting for.
>>>
>>>  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at
>> Eclipse.org under EPL
>>> 1.0 license.
>>>  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL
>> licenses thus as
>>> defined in our policy [1] this change put them in
>> Category B [2] and we need
>>> to validate this change by a vote with a majority of
>> the PMC in favor (but
>>> the vote is open to everybody).
>>>  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for
>> now I see no reason to
>>> accept one and not the other.
>>>  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in
>> august (If we have not
>>> enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if
>> we really need to
>>> extend it).
>>>
>>>  The vote :
>>>
>>>  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies
>> SISU and AETHER libraries
>>> published under EPL 1.0 License and released under
>> eclipse.org governance
>>>  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>>>  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
>>>
>>> Arnaud
>>>
>>> [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
>>> [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------

In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.

  -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society



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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Benson Margulies
Sorry, all, I didn't realize you were asking about the *practical*
issues with the package names. I perceived a nonexistent ideological
dispute.

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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Mark Struberg
In reply to this post by Jason van Zyl
Hi Jason,

Txs 4 the answers.

Changing the package names would of course require some more work on both sides, but at the end it might even be better for the long run. For example using the sonatype name in a package might later cause your company troubles/discussions with Trademarks and stuff.

Otoh it would require us to go through maven-core and all plugins to change imports. So either way is ok, but we need to know the direction.

LieGrue,
strub

--- On Thu, 8/18/11, Jason van Zyl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Jason van Zyl <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 1:24 PM
>
> On Aug 18, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>
> > Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
> >
> > Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea
> what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:
> >
> > a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on
> aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to
> contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions
> are also possible to release separately under ALv2?
> >
>
> The copyright of the code entering Eclipse always remains
> that of the author. The code that is submitted to Eclipse
> must be under the EPL license, but as the copyright owner
> you can make your contributions available under any license
> you choose.
>
> > b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu?
> Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any
> direct guice depending code in aether?
> >
>
> Aether requires no DI.
>
> > c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will
> they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us
> to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for
> this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
> >
>
> I'm going to ask for an exception. I don't want to change
> the package names if I don't have to. It's just a pain in
> the ass.
>
> > d.) How long will it take to get the first aether
> release done at Eclipse?
> >
>
> The creation review ends next Wednesday, it will take
> another week to provision the project. At that point if we
> don't have to change the package names we can do a release.
> If we have to change the package names then that will likely
> add at least another two weeks for proper testing.
>
> > If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get
> involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be
> a big pro.
> >
>
> Sorry, I don't grok that sentence.
>
> > txs and LieGrue,
> > strub
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
> >> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as
> dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
> >> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
> >> +1 (non-binding)
> >>
> >> /Anders
> >>
> >> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>>  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I
> relaunch a
> >> new vote with a better
> >>> scope about what we are voting for.
> >>>
> >>>  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be
> released at
> >> Eclipse.org under EPL
> >>> 1.0 license.
> >>>  Before they were published under ASL or
> dual ASL/EPL
> >> licenses thus as
> >>> defined in our policy [1] this change put them
> in
> >> Category B [2] and we need
> >>> to validate this change by a vote with a
> majority of
> >> the PMC in favor (but
> >>> the vote is open to everybody).
> >>>  I push only one vote for both
> dependencies as for
> >> now I see no reason to
> >>> accept one and not the other.
> >>>  This vote will be open for 6 days as we
> are in
> >> august (If we have not
> >>> enough votes at the end of next wednesday will
> see if
> >> we really need to
> >>> extend it).
> >>>
> >>>  The vote :
> >>>
> >>>  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core
> dependencies
> >> SISU and AETHER libraries
> >>> published under EPL 1.0 License and released
> under
> >> eclipse.org governance
> >>>  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
> >>>  [-1] I'm against because .... (please
> elaborate)
> >>>
> >>> Arnaud
> >>>
> >>> [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
> >>> [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder,  Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a
> rational
> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified
> in it.
>
>   -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
>
>
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Mark Struberg
In reply to this post by Benson Margulies
No worries mate, no reason to excuse :)

The question was good, I just didn't think about any ideological at all so I was a bit surprised as well :)
I just try to figure out what aether@eclipse means to the Maven project in practice. What do we need to change over here, how to cope with changes we need to apply in aether to make future Maven needs possible, etc...

LieGrue,
strub

--- On Thu, 8/18/11, Benson Margulies <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Benson Margulies <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 1:27 PM
> Sorry, all, I didn't realize you were
> asking about the *practical*
> issues with the package names. I perceived a nonexistent
> ideological
> dispute.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Jason van Zyl
In reply to this post by Mark Struberg

On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> Txs 4 the answers.
>
> Changing the package names would of course require some more work on both sides, but at the end it might even be better for the long run. For example using the sonatype name in a package might later cause your company troubles/discussions with Trademarks and stuff.
>

Not an issue in package names. An exception was granted for the package namespace related to public facing APIs, so I'll ask today if the same reasoning can be applied to Aether. It's not hard to put adapters into place so that client code doesn't need to change, which is how it should be done, it's just tedious and not much fun.

> Otoh it would require us to go through maven-core and all plugins to change imports. So either way is ok, but we need to know the direction.
>

I wouldn't make client code have to change anything.

> LieGrue,
> strub
>
> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Jason van Zyl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Jason van Zyl <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
>> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 1:24 PM
>>
>> On Aug 18, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>
>>> Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
>>>
>>> Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea
>> what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:
>>>
>>> a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on
>> aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to
>> contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions
>> are also possible to release separately under ALv2?
>>>
>>
>> The copyright of the code entering Eclipse always remains
>> that of the author. The code that is submitted to Eclipse
>> must be under the EPL license, but as the copyright owner
>> you can make your contributions available under any license
>> you choose.
>>
>>> b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu?
>> Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any
>> direct guice depending code in aether?
>>>
>>
>> Aether requires no DI.
>>
>>> c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will
>> they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us
>> to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for
>> this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
>>>
>>
>> I'm going to ask for an exception. I don't want to change
>> the package names if I don't have to. It's just a pain in
>> the ass.
>>
>>> d.) How long will it take to get the first aether
>> release done at Eclipse?
>>>
>>
>> The creation review ends next Wednesday, it will take
>> another week to provision the project. At that point if we
>> don't have to change the package names we can do a release.
>> If we have to change the package names then that will likely
>> add at least another two weeks for proper testing.
>>
>>> If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get
>> involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be
>> a big pro.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, I don't grok that sentence.
>>
>>> txs and LieGrue,
>>> strub
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as
>> dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
>>>> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
>>>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
>>>> +1 (non-binding)
>>>>
>>>> /Anders
>>>>
>>>> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>   Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I
>> relaunch a
>>>> new vote with a better
>>>>> scope about what we are voting for.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Next releases of SISU and Aether will be
>> released at
>>>> Eclipse.org under EPL
>>>>> 1.0 license.
>>>>>   Before they were published under ASL or
>> dual ASL/EPL
>>>> licenses thus as
>>>>> defined in our policy [1] this change put them
>> in
>>>> Category B [2] and we need
>>>>> to validate this change by a vote with a
>> majority of
>>>> the PMC in favor (but
>>>>> the vote is open to everybody).
>>>>>   I push only one vote for both
>> dependencies as for
>>>> now I see no reason to
>>>>> accept one and not the other.
>>>>>   This vote will be open for 6 days as we
>> are in
>>>> august (If we have not
>>>>> enough votes at the end of next wednesday will
>> see if
>>>> we really need to
>>>>> extend it).
>>>>>
>>>>>   The vote :
>>>>>
>>>>>   [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core
>> dependencies
>>>> SISU and AETHER libraries
>>>>> published under EPL 1.0 License and released
>> under
>>>> eclipse.org governance
>>>>>   [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>>>>>   [-1] I'm against because .... (please
>> elaborate)
>>>>>
>>>>> Arnaud
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
>>>>> [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a
>> rational
>> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified
>> in it.
>>
>>   -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------




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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Jason van Zyl

On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:38 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:

>
> On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>> Txs 4 the answers.
>>
>> Changing the package names would of course require some more work on both sides, but at the end it might even be better for the long run. For example using the sonatype name in a package might later cause your company troubles/discussions with Trademarks and stuff.
>>
>
> Not an issue in package names. An exception was granted for the package namespace related to public facing APIs, so I'll ask today if the same reasoning can be applied to Aether. It's not hard to put adapters into place so that client code doesn't need to change, which is how it should be done, it's just tedious and not much fun.
>

Sorry, here I meant to say an exception was granted for Hudson in this regard.

>> Otoh it would require us to go through maven-core and all plugins to change imports. So either way is ok, but we need to know the direction.
>>
>
> I wouldn't make client code have to change anything.
>
>> LieGrue,
>> strub
>>
>> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Jason van Zyl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Jason van Zyl <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
>>> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
>>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 1:24 PM
>>>
>>> On Aug 18, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
>>>>
>>>> Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea
>>> what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:
>>>>
>>>> a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on
>>> aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to
>>> contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions
>>> are also possible to release separately under ALv2?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The copyright of the code entering Eclipse always remains
>>> that of the author. The code that is submitted to Eclipse
>>> must be under the EPL license, but as the copyright owner
>>> you can make your contributions available under any license
>>> you choose.
>>>
>>>> b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu?
>>> Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any
>>> direct guice depending code in aether?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Aether requires no DI.
>>>
>>>> c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will
>>> they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us
>>> to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for
>>> this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm going to ask for an exception. I don't want to change
>>> the package names if I don't have to. It's just a pain in
>>> the ass.
>>>
>>>> d.) How long will it take to get the first aether
>>> release done at Eclipse?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The creation review ends next Wednesday, it will take
>>> another week to provision the project. At that point if we
>>> don't have to change the package names we can do a release.
>>> If we have to change the package names then that will likely
>>> add at least another two weeks for proper testing.
>>>
>>>> If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get
>>> involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be
>>> a big pro.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, I don't grok that sentence.
>>>
>>>> txs and LieGrue,
>>>> strub
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as
>>> dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
>>>>> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
>>>>> +1 (non-binding)
>>>>>
>>>>> /Anders
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I
>>> relaunch a
>>>>> new vote with a better
>>>>>> scope about what we are voting for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be
>>> released at
>>>>> Eclipse.org under EPL
>>>>>> 1.0 license.
>>>>>>  Before they were published under ASL or
>>> dual ASL/EPL
>>>>> licenses thus as
>>>>>> defined in our policy [1] this change put them
>>> in
>>>>> Category B [2] and we need
>>>>>> to validate this change by a vote with a
>>> majority of
>>>>> the PMC in favor (but
>>>>>> the vote is open to everybody).
>>>>>>  I push only one vote for both
>>> dependencies as for
>>>>> now I see no reason to
>>>>>> accept one and not the other.
>>>>>>  This vote will be open for 6 days as we
>>> are in
>>>>> august (If we have not
>>>>>> enough votes at the end of next wednesday will
>>> see if
>>>>> we really need to
>>>>>> extend it).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  The vote :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core
>>> dependencies
>>>>> SISU and AETHER libraries
>>>>>> published under EPL 1.0 License and released
>>> under
>>>>> eclipse.org governance
>>>>>>  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>>>>>>  [-1] I'm against because .... (please
>>> elaborate)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arnaud
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
>>>>>> [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Jason van Zyl
>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a
>>> rational
>>> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified
>>> in it.
>>>
>>>  -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder,  Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------

We know what we are, but know not what we may be.

  -- Shakespeare



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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Arnaud Héritier
In reply to this post by Jason van Zyl
>
>
>
> > Otoh it would require us to go through maven-core and all plugins to
> change imports. So either way is ok, but we need to know the direction.
> >
>
> I wouldn't make client code have to change anything.
>

For any thirdparty lib we are using in core, on Maven APIs
(org.apache.maven) should be exposed and used by plugins and extensions...
(or we have a problem ... IMHO)

Arnaud
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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

olamy
In reply to this post by Mark Struberg
Hello,
Perso the license question doesn't matter a lot as long we have a
compatible one with ASF.
Have a look at tomcat 7 or the cxf distribs which contains ecj and/or
jetty so the Eclipse license is not a trouble for ASF products (sure
at least for me).
My main point is more regarding the governance model and the devs/pmcs
involved for those projects @eclipse.
If I look at the various proposals for aether [1] and sisu [2], the
initial set of committers doesn't show a diversity or a huge
community.

So even if probably I won't be a huge committer, how will it be
possible to participate in the projects ?
And probably some others Maven folks have the same question.

Thanks,
--
Olivier Lamy
Talend : http://talend.com
http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy

[1] http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/technology.aether/
[2] http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/technology.sisu/


2011/8/18 Mark Struberg <[hidden email]>:

> Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
>
> Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:
>
> a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions are also possible to release separately under ALv2?
>
> b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu? Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any direct guice depending code in aether?
>
> c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
>
> d.) How long will it take to get the first aether release done at Eclipse?
>
> If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be a big pro.
>
> txs and LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
>> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
>> +1 (non-binding)
>>
>> /Anders
>>
>> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a
>> new vote with a better
>> > scope about what we are voting for.
>> >
>> >  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at
>> Eclipse.org under EPL
>> > 1.0 license.
>> >  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL
>> licenses thus as
>> > defined in our policy [1] this change put them in
>> Category B [2] and we need
>> > to validate this change by a vote with a majority of
>> the PMC in favor (but
>> > the vote is open to everybody).
>> >  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for
>> now I see no reason to
>> > accept one and not the other.
>> >  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in
>> august (If we have not
>> > enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if
>> we really need to
>> > extend it).
>> >
>> >  The vote :
>> >
>> >  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies
>> SISU and AETHER libraries
>> > published under EPL 1.0 License and released under
>> eclipse.org governance
>> >  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>> >  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
>> >
>> > Arnaud
>> >
>> > [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
>> > [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Jason van Zyl
In reply to this post by Arnaud Héritier

On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Arnaud Héritier wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>>> Otoh it would require us to go through maven-core and all plugins to
>> change imports. So either way is ok, but we need to know the direction.
>>>
>>
>> I wouldn't make client code have to change anything.
>>
>
> For any thirdparty lib we are using in core, on Maven APIs
> (org.apache.maven) should be exposed and used by plugins and extensions...
> (or we have a problem ... IMHO)
>

This has effectively been done with Aether, all but very few of the existing Artifact/Repository APIs were broken or removed. That said I think what's more important is that anything you choose to expose has a stable API. Aether is already available to plugin developers, it allows some very powerful features, and I personally don't feel like writing a huge set of wrappers. If someone else wants to that's fine, but the notion as someone suggested to cut off Aether's availability by blocking its visibility at the classloader level serves no real purpose. Even though we had the artifact/repository API people still found the need to use Wagon directly. I don't think blocking its use from the perspective of  a "purity of API" argument is a valid one.

> Arnaud

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------

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is responsible for the quality of the whole

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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Jason van Zyl
In reply to this post by olamy

On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Olivier Lamy wrote:

> Hello,
> Perso the license question doesn't matter a lot as long we have a
> compatible one with ASF.
> Have a look at tomcat 7 or the cxf distribs which contains ecj and/or
> jetty so the Eclipse license is not a trouble for ASF products (sure
> at least for me).
> My main point is more regarding the governance model and the devs/pmcs
> involved for those projects @eclipse.
> If I look at the various proposals for aether [1] and sisu [2], the
> initial set of committers doesn't show a diversity or a huge
> community.
>
> So even if probably I won't be a huge committer, how will it be
> possible to participate in the projects ?

The process is more or less identical to Apache. The voting starts by a committer nominating someone and the process is tracked in the portal where votes are registered and tracked. Election of committers is the domain of committers and the PMC has to approve the final vote. PMC members are usually committers. As committers vote, they are posted to the mailing list in question so people can see the progress.

> And probably some others Maven folks have the same question.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Olivier Lamy
> Talend : http://talend.com
> http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy
>
> [1] http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/technology.aether/
> [2] http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/technology.sisu/
>
>
> 2011/8/18 Mark Struberg <[hidden email]>:
>> Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
>>
>> Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:
>>
>> a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions are also possible to release separately under ALv2?
>>
>> b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu? Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any direct guice depending code in aether?
>>
>> c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
>>
>> d.) How long will it take to get the first aether release done at Eclipse?
>>
>> If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be a big pro.
>>
>> txs and LieGrue,
>> strub
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
>>> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
>>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
>>> +1 (non-binding)
>>>
>>> /Anders
>>>
>>> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a
>>> new vote with a better
>>>> scope about what we are voting for.
>>>>
>>>>  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at
>>> Eclipse.org under EPL
>>>> 1.0 license.
>>>>  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL
>>> licenses thus as
>>>> defined in our policy [1] this change put them in
>>> Category B [2] and we need
>>>> to validate this change by a vote with a majority of
>>> the PMC in favor (but
>>>> the vote is open to everybody).
>>>>  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for
>>> now I see no reason to
>>>> accept one and not the other.
>>>>  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in
>>> august (If we have not
>>>> enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if
>>> we really need to
>>>> extend it).
>>>>
>>>>  The vote :
>>>>
>>>>  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies
>>> SISU and AETHER libraries
>>>> published under EPL 1.0 License and released under
>>> eclipse.org governance
>>>>  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>>>>  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
>>>>
>>>> Arnaud
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
>>>> [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
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Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------

A party which is not afraid of letting culture,
business, and welfare go to ruin completely can
be omnipotent for a while.

  -- Jakob Burckhardt



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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Kristian Rosenvold-4
In reply to this post by Mark Struberg
> c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
>
Changing that should be like 20 minutes work, as long as they only
change com.sonatype to org.eclipse and nothing else in the process. It's
about 2 keypresses in idea to do maven core.

Kristian






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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

Ralph Goers
In reply to this post by Arnaud Héritier
+1 (binding)

Ralph

On Aug 18, 2011, at 2:23 AM, Arnaud Héritier wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a new vote with a better
> scope about what we are voting for.
>
>  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at Eclipse.org under EPL
> 1.0 license.
>  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL licenses thus as
> defined in our policy [1] this change put them in Category B [2] and we need
> to validate this change by a vote with a majority of the PMC in favor (but
> the vote is open to everybody).
>  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for now I see no reason to
> accept one and not the other.
>  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in august (If we have not
> enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if we really need to
> extend it).
>
>  The vote :
>
>  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies SISU and AETHER libraries
> published under EPL 1.0 License and released under eclipse.org governance
>  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
>
> Arnaud
>
> [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
> [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b


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Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2

olamy
In reply to this post by Jason van Zyl
So I reformulate my question : 'how to be in the initial set of
committers ?" too late ?

2011/8/18 Jason van Zyl <[hidden email]>:

>
> On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Olivier Lamy wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Perso the license question doesn't matter a lot as long we have a
>> compatible one with ASF.
>> Have a look at tomcat 7 or the cxf distribs which contains ecj and/or
>> jetty so the Eclipse license is not a trouble for ASF products (sure
>> at least for me).
>> My main point is more regarding the governance model and the devs/pmcs
>> involved for those projects @eclipse.
>> If I look at the various proposals for aether [1] and sisu [2], the
>> initial set of committers doesn't show a diversity or a huge
>> community.
>>
>> So even if probably I won't be a huge committer, how will it be
>> possible to participate in the projects ?
>
> The process is more or less identical to Apache. The voting starts by a committer nominating someone and the process is tracked in the portal where votes are registered and tracked. Election of committers is the domain of committers and the PMC has to approve the final vote. PMC members are usually committers. As committers vote, they are posted to the mailing list in question so people can see the progress.
>
>> And probably some others Maven folks have the same question.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Olivier Lamy
>> Talend : http://talend.com
>> http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy
>>
>> [1] http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/technology.aether/
>> [2] http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/technology.sisu/
>>
>>
>> 2011/8/18 Mark Struberg <[hidden email]>:
>>> Jason, Brian, Benjamin or any other person involved,
>>>
>>> Before voting on this issue, I'd like to get an idea what it means for us. So please allow me a few questions:
>>>
>>> a.) how can appache maven committers anticipate on aether over at Eclipse? What if someone (like me) likes to contribute, but wants to make sure that his contributions are also possible to release separately under ALv2?
>>>
>>> b.) is it possible to operate aether without sisu? Pure JSR-330 and/or plexus DI stuff is fine. Is there any direct guice depending code in aether?
>>>
>>> c.) will the package names remain com.sonatype or will they get changed to org.eclipse.*? This is important for us to know. If so, we can just cancel the vote and wait for this stuff to be released at Eclipse.
>>>
>>> d.) How long will it take to get the first aether release done at Eclipse?
>>>
>>> If there is a chilly way for maven committers to get involved with that stuff over at Eclipse, then this would be a big pro.
>>>
>>> txs and LieGrue,
>>> strub
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anders Hammar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Anders Hammar <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Usage of Aether and Sisu as dependencies of maven core with EPL licenses - take 2
>>>> To: "Maven Developers List" <[hidden email]>
>>>> Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
>>>> +1 (non-binding)
>>>>
>>>> /Anders
>>>>
>>>> 2011/8/18 Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thus as decided with Mark and Kristian I relaunch a
>>>> new vote with a better
>>>>> scope about what we are voting for.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Next releases of SISU and Aether will be released at
>>>> Eclipse.org under EPL
>>>>> 1.0 license.
>>>>>  Before they were published under ASL or dual ASL/EPL
>>>> licenses thus as
>>>>> defined in our policy [1] this change put them in
>>>> Category B [2] and we need
>>>>> to validate this change by a vote with a majority of
>>>> the PMC in favor (but
>>>>> the vote is open to everybody).
>>>>>  I push only one vote for both dependencies as for
>>>> now I see no reason to
>>>>> accept one and not the other.
>>>>>  This vote will be open for 6 days as we are in
>>>> august (If we have not
>>>>> enough votes at the end of next wednesday will see if
>>>> we really need to
>>>>> extend it).
>>>>>
>>>>>  The vote :
>>>>>
>>>>>  [+1] I'm in favor to use as Maven core dependencies
>>>> SISU and AETHER libraries
>>>>> published under EPL 1.0 License and released under
>>>> eclipse.org governance
>>>>>  [+0] No opinion, do what you want.
>>>>>  [-1] I'm against because .... (please elaborate)
>>>>>
>>>>> Arnaud
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://maven.apache.org/developers/dependency-policies.html
>>>>> [2] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder,  Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> A party which is not afraid of letting culture,
> business, and welfare go to ruin completely can
> be omnipotent for a while.
>
>  -- Jakob Burckhardt
>
>
>
>



--
Olivier Lamy
Talend : http://talend.com
http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy

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