Re: [DISCUSS] Maven 3.7.0

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Re: [DISCUSS] Maven 3.7.0

Tibor Digana
Robert, I saw the code. The class has a method which returns Lambda
function. The whole class was designed with OOP. The OOP is a good thing
which you should follow and follow this approach and not to return the
labda function. Basically it is a precedense created in the PR saying that
now J8 has to be used in the bytecode.
So I vote -1 for J8 bytecode, and I vote +1 for J8 source code!

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 8:25 AM Robert Scholte <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The outcome is quite clear to me. There no clear 'No' to add this
> build/consumer feature into 3.7.0, so we'll add it which implies we must
> move to Java 8 due to new APIs with Java 8 class signatures.
>
> But first we need to deliver a 3.6.3 regression release.
>
> Robert
>
> On 29-10-2019 05:53:25, Romain Manni-Bucau <[hidden email]> wrote:
> +1, the risk is more or less 0 since we can still use branches for
> potential fixes for "old" projects using frozen java and maven versions
> anyway
>
> Guess we can even be very precautionous doing 1. an upgrade to bytecode
> version without any code change (to change the major version in bytecode),
> 2. a M1 to let users test it if some still doubt.
>
> Le mar. 29 oct. 2019 à 04:06, Olivier Lamy a écrit :
>
> > so what is the status of this?
> > will we discuss in 2025 about being able to use java 8 apis or do we have
> > to wait 2030?
> > Sorry to be sarcastic but not moving forward it's certainly a reason why
> we
> > do not have more people participating in the project....
> > It is so frustrating to be stuck with old apis...
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 04:36, Tibor Digana wrote:
> >
> > > I have to fully agree on Michael Osipov. This discussion is
> > > contraproductive from the time perspective.
> > > He explained the situation in Maven very clearly that we have over 1800
> > > bugs and here we are talking about javac compiler version which does
> not
> > > fix these bugs.
> > > We know that our community is quite big but we also know that we have
> > only
> > > few several developers who regularily provides fixes for the bug and
> they
> > > do it for free!
> > > So my advice is to leave these talks alone about technology lobby (seen
> > on
> > > ML from outside as well) and rather concentrate on the bug. We have
> seen
> > > that the users/contributors handled performance issues and fixed them
> > which
> > > means that these contributors got very good proficiency level!
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:56 PM Alexander Ashitkin <>
> > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Totally disagree on the point. Writing java7 code after 8 makes you
> > feel
> > > > suffering - because instead of expressive stream based operations and
> > > > lambdas you write pointless iterators and copy collections.
> > > > It is purely subjective opinion that lambdas make code less readable
> -
> > at
> > > > least there is an absolutely opposite opinion
> > > >
> > > > Thank you
> > > > Aleks
> > > >
> > > > On 2019/10/03 12:47:35, Paul Hammant wrote:
> > > > > Who codes for 18 months before discovering that qa/prod are not
> > > > compatible,
> > > > > anymore? Especially if Google ship a use-this-Pom starter.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 1:44 PM Elliotte Rusty Harold <>
> > > [hidden email]
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Theoretically that would work. In practice though, every project
> > I've
> > > > > > seen convert to Java 8 rapidly starts adding lambdas that make
> the
> > > > > > code more obfuscated for no good reason and soon introduces hard
> > > > > > dependencies on Java 8, intentionally or otherwise. At a bare
> > > minimum,
> > > > > > a CI environment that runs Java 7 is required.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:25 AM Paul Hammant
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would jdk 8 for maven itself and a target of 7 for the compiler
> > > > (etc) for
> > > > > > > maven-using projects be ok?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 1:15 PM Elliotte Rusty Harold <>
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Strong -1 on Java 8 as the minimum version. Google Cloud
> > Platform
> > > > has
> > > > > > > > lots of products and customers that still require Java 7. If
> > > Maven
> > > > > > > > requires Java 8, we'd have to stick to the latest of
> whichever
> > > > release
> > > > > > > > does support Java 7 for at least a year and I'm guessing
> > longer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 8:04 AM Robert Scholte <>
> > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > TLDR; introduce maven.experimental.buildconsumer and push
> > Java
> > > > > > > > requirement
> > > > > > > > > to Java 8
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > now that Maven 3.6.2 is out for a couple of weeks, it seems
> > > like
> > > > we
> > > > > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > > > face real regressions.
> > > > > > > > > The only one might be tricky is the issue related to Tycho.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, I think we're ready to push Maven to the next
> level.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For those actively reading this list, they should recognize
> > the
> > > > need
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > splitting up the pom as it is on the local system versus
> the
> > > pom
> > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > > uploaded. Once we truly control this mechanism we can think
> > of
> > > > > > > > > improvements on model 5.0.0 and new fileformats.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I've created and implemented MNG-6656[1]. It also contains
> a
> > > zip
> > > > > > with an
> > > > > > > > > example (original, patched, README) to understand what's
> > > > happening.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In order to make this successful, we need IDEs and CI
> Servers
> > > to
> > > > > > > > > understand and support these changes. The likely need to
> > > > implement
> > > > > > one of
> > > > > > > > > the interfaces[2].
> > > > > > > > > The new interface uses Java8 Functions (and especially
> > > > > > SAXEventFactory is
> > > > > > > > > way easier to read+maintain with Java 8). I've tried to
> keep
> > > > Maven
> > > > > > Java 7
> > > > > > > > > compatible, but that was too hard to do.
> > > > > > > > > So I'd like to use this opportunity to move Maven forward
> and
> > > > start
> > > > > > > > > requiring Java 8.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There are some other improvements I'd like to add (those
> > > messages
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > follow), so this will imply that it will take some time
> > before
> > > > we do
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > release.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > WDTY,
> > > > > > > > > Robert
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MNG-6656
> > > > > > > > > [2]
> > https://github.com/apache/maven/compare/MNG-6656?expand=1
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Elliotte Rusty Harold
> > > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Elliotte Rusty Harold
> > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Olivier Lamy
> > http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy
> >
>